Yes, we have gone bananas
So, backstage conversation has turned to the bananapolisation of A Million Penguins and what, if anything, we should do about it. Is our banana obsessed contributor a mere vandal, a warped genius, some sort of whacky perfomance artist or simply a very naughty boy (or girl)? Should we ban him/her (permanently, or just for a few days?) or celebrate the infusion of fruity fun into this project? Basically does this gag have apeel, or have you all had a skinfull of bananaman’s monkeying about? So in the spirit of openness with which (we hope) we have approached every aspect of this project we ask you, contributors and readers, to suggest a route forward.
jeremy@penguin
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February 19th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
I, for one, am exhilirated by the yellow antics of CowardlyBanana. It is the principal reason for following the scrawlings on this website. All the other plot-lines have been so much detritus - devoid of form, to say nothing of talent or expressed joy. Yes, the Bananaman with his smiting mirth is a far-superior read. All the other writers are barely a step above the scrawlings on the door of a gentleman’s latrine.
February 19th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
I would let the Banana man (Eric perchance?) have his day. Art and vandalism can be different viewpoints on the same object. Just our associations and feelings change depending on the value we place on the (banana) source.
Early on in the project I was disheartened by the various attacks; even though some I found quite amusing in their way. The Banana man’s thing is no different really to those who take a growing story and completely throw out everything and replace it with something completely different; suspect both are equally valid and yet hurtful to the egos of the contributors whose work is lost.
Now, I contribute to one of the alternative novels where at least the semblance of a plot and semi-structure has fixed… It has the benefit that few vandals make their way down there, but, on the negative side few geniune contributors make their way down there so only a handful of us push forward into the darkness to see what comes out the other side.
I would let the banana reign until such time that other contributors undo the work. But then again, I have no link to the source and would say that.
M.
February 19th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Once again, Penguin is playing colonial master to the suppressed literary hordes.
Dear editor - an education in an English public school does not entitle you to gag our voice. Bananas R Us!
February 19th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Hi, I am ambivalent about our banana man (woman). I have found the entries cheeky… and amusing…. but i don’t like it when it goes through other thoughtful texts turning them from thoughful to preposterous (altlhough it does make me smile…. ) there is actually a separate banana novel in the options…..
I think i may be in love with the cheeky banana contributor, but I still think banana person needs to not shoot the banana theme through the text lika crazy virus….
February 19th, 2007 at 10:58 pm
Ps, i think there is a fine line between genuine addition to a text,and creativity and mere vandalism. It is a hard one to define… I wonder if it is like that judge who once said “i don’t know what the definition of pornography is but I sure know it when I see it.” Same with this. I am all for creativity and humour, but when someone sends a whole spamload of bananas throughout the text, it is funny creative and worth sotring, and i reckon it should remain on there for a while so people can see and enjoy it and laugh, but then the original text should be returned and the banana novel go to a seperate section. (Unless the banana contributor can argue what they are trying to achieve…… ). I am all for their freedom of expression but again there is a fine line between adding once two cents worth and virtually obliterating everyone elses. Clearly there are different genres, and slightly different foci, and i reckon they can all exist and be respected, but i think one ought to try to keep a consistency at least within the genre of a chapter.
Hope these thoughts help
February 20th, 2007 at 2:05 am
“there is a fine line between adding once two cents worth and virtually obliterating everyone elses”
It’s not a fine line at all, though that may depend on the thickness of your ruler.
R.E.S.P.E.C.T. as the song goes, that’s what’s lacking…
February 20th, 2007 at 6:10 am
ConstructionDest….. I agree that respect for each other is important, but I do stick by my original view that in a novel project such as this where under the principles of participation it is envisaged that all can add to vary, edit or delete…. it must by definition be a fine line as to what is a legitimate use of that, a creative use and what is not. I suspect that one can take a very rigid view of things and say that ‘any variation by someone else that changes the direction or intention of the original author is vandalism’ but that would render projects like this ineffective and also, since we are not mind readers and don’t all think the same way, it would not be practical or advisable.
Nevertheless, it should be quite clear to see when someone is just obliterating the text and using other chapters just as an ancillary player to their ‘play on words’ eg bananas.
February 20th, 2007 at 11:28 am
Some variation is reasonable. Obliteration isn’t. This may never become a novel but there’s an increasingly interesting collection of short stories evolving around a central cast of characters (and unrelated stories as well). I’ve enjoyed reading ‘XXXX’ and ‘XXX XXXXX XXX…’ and many others. [Names obscured to protect the stories]
There are also genuine attempts at continuity hiding away, perhaps now abandoned, in unfrequented corners. Having stuck with the site since day one (10 hits per second, remember?), I’d like to see some of that material “looked after”. I’m here to contribute/edit/be-edited/learn/laugh/enjoy. Having 500+ characters of reasonably-considered text deleted for no reason is a waste of a writer’s time and everyone else’s.
So Jeremy, in answer to your question, lock out the vandals as best you can. If someone wants to make massive wholesale changes, they can be reasonable and copy/paste so the original version is preserved. Then everyone’s “artistic freedom” is respected.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Personally, I’d vote for the Banana king to be kept in the fold.
To enforce a ban would be to admit there is a hierarchy among the contributors. It is a common enough charactersitic to assume ownership, based on a randomly selected (and self-serving) criteria (ref JohnH’s comment about being active since “day one”).
If there is indeed a pecking order, please can this be made clear on the website. Otherwise, let the group dynamic shape the story - this is, afterall, the point of the experiment. Isn’t it?
Besides, the banana contributions are by far the most commented on feature of the text so far.
February 20th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Fatwa #5: eliminate banana-obssessed authors!
February 20th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
You could offer a megalomaniacal-sized Penguin book offer to the hungry banana republicans—preclusive payola.
It’s naive to imagine any higher resulting standard sans editorial guidelines and, ahem, hierarchy. Without it all manner of fruits, nuts and vegetables are welcome—at first welcome, later problematic.
As editor you’ll likely be forced to one day develop and state what exactly you hope to glean from this experiment. If only to avoid a fully-devolved anarchy or worse yet an apathetic and disenchanted work force.
I’m wondering, if forced into such a logic gambit, with which faction would you side? The diligent minions, the banana republicans, or the truly gifted individuals.
Even individuals require some modicum constructs in order to at last produce a work of substance.
…Hmm, this comment ceased being funny a line or two back, turning decidedly nihilistic! Long day—time to give the wiki-collective another read.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:17 am
I just wish this could be people building on the previous writing I am an artist that works with non linearity and an experimental writing………..oh yeah….and an english prof……………………so I was all in favor of fun and play and non linearity…..as long as it went somewhere…..built…..had writing that wasn’t just cute and juvenile and frankly I’ve had it…..I just can’t take it anymore…..there have been patches of great potential…in terms of narrative…scene….character….description………….and they are the ones most frequently wiped clean……I think the bananas is not funny……juvenile and always just mucks up some other section so it is vandalism….this whole project is sinking under bananas, whales, penguins, porn…..it is unfortunate and as a write I tip my hat………and wish all well….
February 21st, 2007 at 12:19 am
and yes there are typos in my post…..in a hurry to go…..so please no flames……
February 21st, 2007 at 2:37 am
actually, I agree with the points made above, about the fact that any and all people need some degree of structure in order to produce good work. In a perfect world we could all work without any form of contraint, but the reason we have editors is because publishing ultimately is walking the fine line between absolute creativity and market accessibility and communication. I must admit, my experience of editors, as small as that experience may be, is that they often clarify my writing. I beleive editors are there not so much to impose structure, but to identify the structure, genre and style of writer(s) and then help to ensure that this is enhanced and amplified and that things don’t get in the road to obscure that. So, perhaps editors, excuse the image if it is offensive, are like midwives, helping to bring to birth the child of others, and working always with the peculiar circumstances of this one child….not imposing, but certainly not allowing any old thing either….. so…. i am very much in favour of developing and building on others work, and preserving the gems that we are finding in this fascinating experiment……
February 21st, 2007 at 5:25 am
While I applaud, support, and appreciate nonlinear narrative, hallucinatory imagery, post modern reprocessing, nihilistic deconstruction, temporal transformation, meta-fictional exposition, and textual randomization as relevant fictional techniques and creative tools attempting to express, decompress, impress, or otherwise transgress our contemporary use of language as an effort to define reality; I believe there is a difference between peeling away the layers of that multi-skinned depiction of our perceptual experience, and simply littering its penguin imprinted landscape with peels of puerile phallic shaped fruit. How many more of our million flightless brothers and sisters have to slip and fall on an already treacherously thin, icy surface at the hands of this organic litterbug, before one of us becomes evolved enough to grow a set of fangs inside our fish snatching beaks sharp enough to tear out the yellow bellied heart of this borderline vandal, who offers nothing but wasteful skin deep garbage without the proverbial fruit of ambrosial substance?
February 21st, 2007 at 9:28 am
Once again, the post above uses a very personal judgement upon which to include and exclude individual contributors.
Well, I disagree with the subjective assessment that Banana is “littering” the text. In fact, s/he strikes me as a much more readable, and certainly more entertaining, writer than almost any other on the blog.
But that’s just my personal opinion, and I realise that…
February 21st, 2007 at 11:09 am
I’m sorry, but once again my use of language has post modernly ceased to clarify my meaning, at least to writepen9. Let me be more direct in explaining how I intend us to “tear the yellow bellied heart out of” our banana brained culprit. I used the term “evolve” because I view the Million Penguins enterprise as an experiment in literary evolution, or devolution depending upon the intentional, desired, aberrational, or accidental result.
I never expressed the opinion that this fruity vandal should be excluded, or banned in draconian fashion from the project. I simply hope that the dominant aggressive tendency of his competitors would weed the proverbial garden of his yellow presence enough to retain some of the sweetness that one of my favorite fruits possesses, while cleaning the landscape of his more skin deep littering (which I do feel is an appropriate
term in many of the cases). Thus, the suggestion to grow a pair of fangs in our metaphoric beaks and start biting.
I also must defend the honor of other penguins, by disagreeing that banana is “more entertaining” or “more readable” than “almost any other” contributors. While I agree that the evolving novel is lacking in many areas, I think there are some fine swimmers among us who have traveled more deeply than the flaccid banana, and while this, and all other opinion I have related are subjective communications, my only defense is, simply, that is the nature of the beast.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:55 pm
I noticed Master Sun being quoted a few times at the beginning of this experiment, so I thought I might keep with tradition. (because he new his shit.)
one
“So the rule of military operations is not to count on opponents not coming, but to rely on having ways of dealing with them; not to count on opponenets not attacking, but to rely on having what cannot be attacked.”
Two
“Appear where they cannot go, head for where they least expect you. To travel hundreds of miles without fatigue, go over land where there are no people.”
and three
“leadership is a matter of intelligence, trustworthiness,himaneness,courage, and sternness.”
I myself subscribe to the belief of “If you cant beat em join em” anyone for choose your own banana.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:21 pm
What?
Can anyone (Banana exempted) compose a clear and meaningful sentence on this website?
February 21st, 2007 at 4:16 pm
I’ve been following along with this.
I guess I believe in an equal freedom to write on this wiki, no hierarchy.
And at the same time I’d differentiate in terms of original contributions (of which there is plenty) rather than just spamming around. The place is about writing after all.
But then I’m old-fashioned. I like a good story.
February 21st, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Me too!
And do you know what, joanna my petal? They’re not a patch on old A.A. Milne…
These tech-heads and their blimmin blogs. Enough of this digital claptrap!
Let’s wonder through the 100 acre wood, you and I. With nothing but a simple hummy sort of song, fluffy friends, and a bear of very little brain…
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:49 am
Leave the banana be.
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:23 am
Hey, no disrespect to the Pooh and all, but he was never my favourite character or book series, and anyways, comparing A.A. Milne to A Million Penguins is like comparing Silence of the Lambs with Bambi. This is a totally different style and I must admit to finding this text very engaging and different.
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:28 pm
I agree with you, sentinel. A story does emerge, thanks to some smart contributors.
February 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
If nothing else, it makes for a nice omage to the first section of Thomas Pynchon’s “Gravity’s Rainbow.” For instance, “unbelievable black topsoil in which anything could grow, not the least being bananas. Pirate, driven to despair by the wartime banana shortage, decided to build a glass hothouse on the roof, and persuade a friend who flew the Rio-to-Ascension-to-Fort-Lamy run to pinch him a sapling banana tree or two […] Pirate has become famous for his Banana Breakfasts”
There are about 12 other references you can check out here:
http://www.hyperarts.com/pynchon/gravity/extra/bananas.html